Post: A tip that helped my LAG a lot, and a myth busted
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12-01-2012, 04:33 PM
#1
sonofpops
Are you high?
The matchmaking and best connection thing is the best its ever been in any cod. The fact that players are experiencing varying degrees of LAG is almost certainly down to their own connection. I was raging about LAG as I got the best internet etc paid for fibre optic, ethernet cable etc and I thought I was being punished by LAG comp.
Not the case at all if it wasn't for LAG comp I would not be able to even play cod. Basically as memory has become cheaper router manufacturers have added more and more memory (cheap ass memory). Great right? ... well not exactly.
In order to maintain network integrity while everyone in the world is sending packets at the same time some packets have to be momentarily delayed to avoid being fragmented. This happens both on your router and of course on a larger scale your isp's exchange routers.
I ran a network diagnostic tool on my own connection and I am not talking about pingtest.net or speedtest.net I am talking about a professional scientific network analysis tool called netalyser (google it use the downloadable .jar not the online version). To my utter amazement my top spec fibre optic low latency internet had a 4447ms buffer delay while playing Black ops 2.
Imagine being in a lobby where you had a 'real' ping of 4447ms and no LAG comp? People would drop you before you had even seen them.
The problem is that your (or your ISP's) router can become bloated completely unpredictably and be great one second and awful the next. As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory it becomes full and responds slowly while 'bloated'. So even though you have an amazing upstream that upstream is being delayed by in my case 4.5 seconds by your own router.
It is for that reason that being host sucks in MW3 and most of the time in BO2 a little lag comp (too much in MW3) but mostly host=more packets more packets=more bloat.
They are working on a solution to buffer bloat with routers with better memory management but they wont hit the stores till 2015.
There are a few things you can try optimising your MTU to stop packets being fragmented because they are too large for example most ADSL lines this number is 1472. There are plenty of tuts on here and YT to help with this.
Also you can avoid host by closing ports to make your NAT moderate.
But what worked best for me and is a real game changer was this. Download virtual router manager (google it) on a windows 7 Laptop and share your windows 7 laptops connection wirelessly. Then connect your console to your virtual wireless network through your windows 7 Laptop. Im not sure why using your laptop as a router works but I think this works because the laptop has better memory management and more memory than my cheap ISP router.
If it doesn't work for you I am sorry, It PROPERLY worked for me and my clan but I cant speak for your individual problems. I hope you at least enjoyed the information.
I am now very much enjoying the LAG and now I am better informed about my own connection I am glad of LAG comp =]
---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------
Just a quick note about MTU my default MTU was 1500 and 3 out of 4 packets that I sent to google.com via command prompt were being fragmented. At 1472 4 out of 4 were complete.
---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------
If enough people want I will make a Vid tut on diagnosing if the LAG is from your own network.
The following 18 users say thank you to sonofpops for this useful post:
12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
#38
SwordArtOnline
Banned
I hate lagging on BOII & MW3 B/C of my Connection
12-05-2012, 02:01 AM
#42
Team_Specialist
Pokemon Trainer
what a load of shit, router memory?? reset the router and the memory is cleared. Im a network engineer and honestly not be nasty but what a heep of junk tut.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
#43
sonofpops
Are you high?
Originally posted by Specialist
what a load of shit, router memory?? reset the router and the memory is cleared. Im a network engineer and honestly not be nasty but what a heep of junk tut.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
Its not my theory it was my understanding of a problem called buffer bloat which is being reported across the web. There are even universities looking into it. I cant remember the site i will try find it but it was a scientist and he called it "a fundamental flaw in tcp protocol". So please like the other guy instead of just flaming me because you know more can you explain why netalyzr shows me a 4447ms buffer delay on my upstream. Then if i have this wrong why does using my laptop as a router work so good. I was sruggling to maintain a 1.29 kd last night i went 88-10. Even others who tried it saying it worked.
So instead of laughing at me HELP US. For god sake if your a network engineet your perfect for the job.
---------- Post added at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 AM ----------
Originally posted by Specialist
what a load of shit, router memory?? reset the router and the memory is cleared. Im a network engineer and honestly not be nasty but what a heep of junk tut.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
" router can become bloated completely unpredictably " ISP's Router?? lol seriously?? no matter how much traffic is going to the ISP it will never lag cisco routers are built for traffic
"As your router has to 'hang on' to more and more packets in the memory" LOL WTF YOUR ROUTER MUST BE FROM THE 1990'S????????????????????
if you dont know how a router works or cant configure the settings, dont use port 0/1 ( colored port usually for the cat5 from your modem) and put your modem cable in port 2. disable wifi and use your router as a hub/switch. simple. dont know if you wrote this tut but it just annoyed me and at same time made me laugh at the theory of how a router works.
Ok actually I am going to show more confidence in my idea here is a few key points from wikipedia about buffer bloat.
If anyone doesn't want to read whole thing quick version
"This problem is caused mainly by router and switch manufacturers making incorrect assumptions and buffering packets for too long in cases where they should be dropped."
"The buffers then take some time to drain, before the TCP connection ramps back up to speed and then floods the buffers again."
"Any type of service which requires consistent low latency and jitter (whether low or high bandwidth), be it VoIP, networked gaming, video chat programs, and interactive application such as text, remote login become almost impossible."
So now you have it your language so now tell me its all BS
Originally posted by another user
"Buffering
This problem is caused mainly by router and switch manufacturers making incorrect assumptions and buffering packets for too long in cases where they should be dropped. This can lead to TCP's congestion-avoidance algorithms breaking, causing problems such as high and variable latency, and choking network bottlenecks for all other flows as the buffer becomes full of the packets of one TCP stream and other packets are then dropped.[4] The buffers then take some time to drain, before the TCP connection ramps back up to speed and then floods the buffers again.[citation needed]
Under falling prices of memory and the perception that dropping packets should be avoided if possible, network buffers in operating systems and network devices have grown.[when?][citation needed]
A bloated buffer has an effect only when this buffer actually fills up. In other words, over-sized buffers have a damaging effect only when the link they buffer for becomes a bottleneck. When the current bottleneck on the route from/to another host is not contended then it is easy to tell if it's bloated or not using just the ping utility provided by most operating systems. First, the other host should be pinged continuously. Then a several seconds long download from it should be started and stopped a few times. By design, TCP congestion avoidance algorithm rapidly fills up the bottleneck on the route. If downloading (resp. uploading) correlates with a direct and important increase of the round trip time reported by ping, then it proves that the buffer of the current bottleneck in the download (resp. upload) direction is bloated. Since the increase of the round trip time is caused by the buffer on the bottleneck, the maximum increase gives a rough estimation of its size in milliseconds.[citation needed]
Using instead of ping in the above an advanced traceroute tool (like for instance MTR) will not just demonstrate the existence of a bloated buffer on the bottleneck but will also pinpoint its the network location. traceroute achieves this by pinging every router, which shows the latency added by every link on the route.[citation needed]
[edit]Mechanism
The TCP congestion avoidance algorithm relies on packet drops to determine the bandwidth available. It speeds up the data transfer until packets start to drop, then slows down the connection. Ideally it speeds up and slows down until it finds an equilibrium equal to the speed of the link. However, for this to work the packet drops must occur in a timely manner, so that the algorithm can select a suitable transfer speed. With a large buffer that has been filled, the packets will arrive at their destination, but with a higher latency. The packet is not dropped, so TCP does not slow down once the uplink has been saturated, further filling the buffer. Newly arriving packets are dropped only when the buffer is fully saturated. TCP may even decide that the path of the connection has changed, and again go into more aggressive search for a new operating point[clarification needed][citation needed].
In a network buffer, packets are queued before being transmitted. In the problematic situation packets are only dropped if the buffer is full. On older routers, buffers were fairly small so they filled quickly and therefore packets began to drop shortly after the link became saturated, so the TCP protocol could adjust, and the issue wouldn't become apparent. On newer routers buffers have become large enough to hold several megabytes of data, which translates to 10 seconds or more at a 1 Mbit/s line rate used for residential Internet access. This causes the TCP algorithm that shares bandwidth on a link to react very slowly as its behavior is quadratic in the amount of buffering[clarification needed].
The problem also affects other protocols. All packets passing through a simple buffer implemented as a single queue will experience the same delay, so the latency of any connection that passes through a filled buffer will be affected. This also reduces the interactivity of applications using other network protocols, including UDP or any other datagram protocol used in latency sensitive applications like VoIP and games[citation needed]. In extreme cases bufferbloat may cause failures in essential protocols such as DNS.
[edit]Applications
Low latency: Any type of service which requires consistent low latency and jitter (whether low or high bandwidth), be it VoIP, networked gaming, video chat programs, and interactive application such as text, remote login become almost impossible.
Latency has been identified as more important than bandwidth for many years.[5]
Other: When bufferbloat is present and the network is under load, latency and/or throughput sensitive uses are affected, for example a symptom is that normal web page loads can take many seconds to complete."
This problem is caused mainly by router and switch manufacturers making incorrect assumptions and buffering packets for too long in cases where they should be dropped. This can lead to TCP's congestion-avoidance algorithms breaking, causing problems such as high and variable latency, and choking network bottlenecks for all other flows as the buffer becomes full of the packets of one TCP stream and other packets are then dropped.[4] The buffers then take some time to drain, before the TCP connection ramps back up to speed and then floods the buffers again.[citation needed]
Under falling prices of memory and the perception that dropping packets should be avoided if possible, network buffers in operating systems and network devices have grown.[when?][citation needed]
A bloated buffer has an effect only when this buffer actually fills up. In other words, over-sized buffers have a damaging effect only when the link they buffer for becomes a bottleneck. When the current bottleneck on the route from/to another host is not contended then it is easy to tell if it's bloated or not using just the ping utility provided by most operating systems. First, the other host should be pinged continuously. Then a several seconds long download from it should be started and stopped a few times. By design, TCP congestion avoidance algorithm rapidly fills up the bottleneck on the route. If downloading (resp. uploading) correlates with a direct and important increase of the round trip time reported by ping, then it proves that the buffer of the current bottleneck in the download (resp. upload) direction is bloated. Since the increase of the round trip time is caused by the buffer on the bottleneck, the maximum increase gives a rough estimation of its size in milliseconds.[citation needed]
Using instead of ping in the above an advanced traceroute tool (like for instance MTR) will not just demonstrate the existence of a bloated buffer on the bottleneck but will also pinpoint its the network location. traceroute achieves this by pinging every router, which shows the latency added by every link on the route.[citation needed]
[edit]Mechanism
The TCP congestion avoidance algorithm relies on packet drops to determine the bandwidth available. It speeds up the data transfer until packets start to drop, then slows down the connection. Ideally it speeds up and slows down until it finds an equilibrium equal to the speed of the link. However, for this to work the packet drops must occur in a timely manner, so that the algorithm can select a suitable transfer speed. With a large buffer that has been filled, the packets will arrive at their destination, but with a higher latency. The packet is not dropped, so TCP does not slow down once the uplink has been saturated, further filling the buffer. Newly arriving packets are dropped only when the buffer is fully saturated. TCP may even decide that the path of the connection has changed, and again go into more aggressive search for a new operating point[clarification needed][citation needed].
In a network buffer, packets are queued before being transmitted. In the problematic situation packets are only dropped if the buffer is full. On older routers, buffers were fairly small so they filled quickly and therefore packets began to drop shortly after the link became saturated, so the TCP protocol could adjust, and the issue wouldn't become apparent. On newer routers buffers have become large enough to hold several megabytes of data, which translates to 10 seconds or more at a 1 Mbit/s line rate used for residential Internet access. This causes the TCP algorithm that shares bandwidth on a link to react very slowly as its behavior is quadratic in the amount of buffering[clarification needed].
The problem also affects other protocols. All packets passing through a simple buffer implemented as a single queue will experience the same delay, so the latency of any connection that passes through a filled buffer will be affected. This also reduces the interactivity of applications using other network protocols, including UDP or any other datagram protocol used in latency sensitive applications like VoIP and games[citation needed]. In extreme cases bufferbloat may cause failures in essential protocols such as DNS.
[edit]Applications
Low latency: Any type of service which requires consistent low latency and jitter (whether low or high bandwidth), be it VoIP, networked gaming, video chat programs, and interactive application such as text, remote login become almost impossible.
Latency has been identified as more important than bandwidth for many years.[5]
Other: When bufferbloat is present and the network is under load, latency and/or throughput sensitive uses are affected, for example a symptom is that normal web page loads can take many seconds to complete."
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