Post: PS4 won the Xbox 720 battle with Windows 8?
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04-13-2013, 12:50 AM
#1
xLew--
Former Staff
It has been rumored that the next Xbox is just another Windows 8 console box, essentially a PC where the porting process of video game titles would be much easier, and cheaper while targeting the casual demographic with DVR feature.
Timothy Lottes wrote on his blog early this year detailing his thoughts on next generation consoles, calling both rumored PS4 and Xbox 720 as “Orbis and Durango”.
He started his blog post by stating that the Eurogamer’s article which has been posted two weeks ago featuring the next PlayStation as “mostly correct” but “with the exception of maybe exact clocks, amount of memory, and number of enabled cores”.
On PS4
The real reason to get excited about a PS4 is what Sony as a company does with the OS and system libraries as a platform, and what this enables 1st party studios to do, when they make PS4-only games. If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
On Xbox 720
Working here assuming the Eurogamer Article is close to correct. On this platform I’d be concerned with memory bandwidth. Only DDR3 for system/GPU memory pared with 32MB of “ESRAM” sounds troubling.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
He also let out a few information about his “personal project”,
My personal project is targeting 1080p@60fps with great AA on a 560ti which is a little slower than the rumored Orbis specs. There is no way my engine would hit that target on the rumored 720 specs. Ultimately on Orbis I guess devs target 1080p/30fps (with some motion blur) and leverage the lower latency OS stack and scan out at 60fps (double scan frames) to provide a really great lower-latency experience. Maybe the same title on 720 would render at 720p/30fps, and maybe Microsoft is dedicating a few CPU hardware threads to the GPU driver stack to remove the latency problem (assuming this is a “Windows” OS under the covers).
Some may not know who is Timothy Lottes, but he has established himself as one of the influential figures in console development arena after he created an anti-aliasing algorithm called Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing (FXAA) under NVIDIA.
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Just reveal the next xbox already!! we want to see the real specs and see how they compare.
The following 8 users say thank you to xLew-- for this useful post:
04-13-2013, 01:59 AM
#3
CyberNomadic
Web Developer
but lets not start a xbox/ps3 war
04-13-2013, 04:33 AM
#5
socia
Gym leader
all these rumors actually fit together, put'em all on paper and it kinda spells out the words.... f@#k our customers! i think Microsoft is leaving the gaming console war and going the route of apple and google.... apple and google have their dipsticks in everything and looks like "XBOX" is trying to move in on it. this would make sense if Microsoft moved their windows 8 OS into the new box. i truly think the name XBOX is no longer gonna mean what it means today. i get the feeling the new "XBOX BRAND" is more focused on media services or they are going to explore that area at least. hell they got the money for it from all the kids paying ridiculous online fees.
i wounder if these new services to include Xbox live is gonna have commercials or advertisements constantly pissing people off trying to enjoy themselves. i bet they will, its more money they will bring in from advertising companies, its a double whammy. charge for online service, always make it so people have to stay connected (residual income) cant use the box unless you pay.... also residual income from advertisements. maybe a kickback from cable providers by only allowing one cable company to be partnered with the new box. who knows but im very interested to see where this whole Xbox vision is going.
as always these are my thoughts and personal opinions on the Xbox subject.
OK, as i am a fan of Sony i am also disappointed with the ps3 over all. its a great console for games if they are first party created. but since its so hard for developers to port too, some games are just shitty. Forbes did interviews with developers and that was one of their biggest complaints. Sony took note and changed a lot of things for next gen, hell they even hired Cerny to lead the development instead of a long time in house employee. they are very traditional so that really surprised me. if Xbox didn't dominate the American market i don't think we would see such a drastic change in Sony, i am kinda worried that XBOX is gonna be a huge fail or disappointment now. if companies don't have to compete with each other there is no changing how they do things. Sony and Microsoft have to be pushed in the right direction and the only thing big enough to do that is each other.
i really cant wait to see these 2 system side by side, all cards out on the table. to be able to finally stop with all these rumors, ideas or thoughts about where each company is heading. im feeling a bit like a little kid 2 days before Christmas. 59 more days and we all can put this to rest.
i am sorry for the long post guys i just wanted to put my thoughts on the subject out there.
i wounder if these new services to include Xbox live is gonna have commercials or advertisements constantly pissing people off trying to enjoy themselves. i bet they will, its more money they will bring in from advertising companies, its a double whammy. charge for online service, always make it so people have to stay connected (residual income) cant use the box unless you pay.... also residual income from advertisements. maybe a kickback from cable providers by only allowing one cable company to be partnered with the new box. who knows but im very interested to see where this whole Xbox vision is going.
as always these are my thoughts and personal opinions on the Xbox subject.
OK, as i am a fan of Sony i am also disappointed with the ps3 over all. its a great console for games if they are first party created. but since its so hard for developers to port too, some games are just shitty. Forbes did interviews with developers and that was one of their biggest complaints. Sony took note and changed a lot of things for next gen, hell they even hired Cerny to lead the development instead of a long time in house employee. they are very traditional so that really surprised me. if Xbox didn't dominate the American market i don't think we would see such a drastic change in Sony, i am kinda worried that XBOX is gonna be a huge fail or disappointment now. if companies don't have to compete with each other there is no changing how they do things. Sony and Microsoft have to be pushed in the right direction and the only thing big enough to do that is each other.
i really cant wait to see these 2 system side by side, all cards out on the table. to be able to finally stop with all these rumors, ideas or thoughts about where each company is heading. im feeling a bit like a little kid 2 days before Christmas. 59 more days and we all can put this to rest.
i am sorry for the long post guys i just wanted to put my thoughts on the subject out there.
Last edited by
socia ; 04-13-2013 at 04:38 AM.
04-13-2013, 03:56 PM
#8
NelsonRodV
Hot Rod
I'm still going to buy them both. First the PS4 then like 5-6 months I'll buy the xbox 720. PS4 is going to be for hardcore gamers, the xbox 720 looks like is going to be a media/social console.
I just want to see me friends face when he gets to know what the xbox 720 haves right now... He still thinks the xbox is better because he still doesn't know what the PS4 is capable of doing now.
I just want to see me friends face when he gets to know what the xbox 720 haves right now... He still thinks the xbox is better because he still doesn't know what the PS4 is capable of doing now.
04-13-2013, 04:54 PM
#9
xLew--
Former Staff
Originally posted by MetalHead777
I'm still going to buy them both. First the PS4 then like 5-6 months I'll buy the xbox 720. PS4 is going to be for hardcore gamers, the xbox 720 looks like is going to be a media/social console.
I just want to see me friends face when he gets to know what the xbox 720 haves right now... He still thinks the xbox is better because he still doesn't know what the PS4 is capable of doing now.
I just want to see me friends face when he gets to know what the xbox 720 haves right now... He still thinks the xbox is better because he still doesn't know what the PS4 is capable of doing now.
i have a friend like that he loves microsoft to death, bums the fuck out of them. says look at sony they're on there 3rd console and they still cant do it right, im like what, how can you say that when your on your 7th xbox 360? really......
things like that get me hoping microsoft fuck it up and sony have a huge lead, just so i can laugh in his face.
04-13-2013, 05:15 PM
#10
socia
Gym leader
Originally posted by xLew
they just need to do something to stopp all the rumours and speculations flying about and put a stop to them all.
i cant agree enough with you enough on this.... they should at least come out and address the always on rumor especially after what that Adam guy twitted. he generate so much negative press for Xbox and pretty much threw fuel on the fire.
Originally posted by MrMadShoes
also agree with u, some games indeed look unfinished. (like cod series ) but on the other hand, ps3 exclusives look amazing, with awesome graphics, storyline and action. but hopefully on the PS4 all games will look awesome.
PS3 exclusives are simply beautiful, smooth running and out of all my games i really enjoy them the most. i am really excited for the PS4 because of the indie games though, they bring so many ideas and enjoyment into the gaming scene. we need that, otherwise its the same game over and over again (COD,HALO) :FU:
Originally posted by MetalHead777
I'm still going to buy them both. First the PS4 then like 5-6 months I'll buy the xbox 720. PS4 is going to be for hardcore gamers, the Xbox 720 looks like is going to be a media/social console.
i will have the PS4, not sure if ill pre-order or wait a few months after release, we all know there are gonna be a lot of bugs to work out. still haven't decided though. as of right now i dont have a need for the next gen Xbox, if rumors surrounding it are correct i wont be purchasing it at all. i have all those things on my computer already. they need to have better gaming gear than the PS4 to woo me to buy it. highly doubt it though.
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