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Im figuring out why GTP is confused. They think the effect they feel when stiffening up settings is grip increase and adding camber since it has the opposite effect must remove grip. It actually reversed.

Stiffening up things removes grip and since camber has the opposite feel it must be adding grip.

They DO NOT like me at GTP, I must be GTP most notorious.

ABS

Well its a drivers crutch. Its an assist, it ruins the feel of the car, nullifying the character of the car turning GT into BS. Cars all feel relatively the same and tuning to use ABS they drive relatively the same.

Q:But why are you so against ABS, when its a real thing in cars, some cars you cannot buy without ABS?

A: This has a few reasons to it. First and foremost the ABS in GT series is nothing like an actual ABS system. ABS systems DO NOT PREVENT all lock ups, it actually takes a bit of locking up to activate the ABS system. This means a driver can use "Threshold Braking" basically riding the line of ABS activation. In GT the ABS completely prevents lockups and removes the "threshold" GT ABS stabilizes wheel speed, so even when not theoretically on the verge of lock up (when ABS should begin to kick in) the ABS system is at play stabilizing the car.

Also diminishing this point is the fact that people don't only use ABS or cars that are equipped with ABS, they use ABS on every car, new, old, with available ABS and without, they even use it on Race Cars ABS use is restricted on. So that would put the reason more like an excuse a BS justification for using driving assist.

Now with the GT ABS system racing brakes can be used on cars with tires not up to the task, Since ABS is an assist it together with using racing brakes on street cars with SH tires drops braking distances quite substancially, allowing drivers to brake later into the corner. Braking later will use higher braking force to slow the vehicle in a shorter distance (with no worries of lock ups) and this allows higher MOMENTUM through the corner into exit....

ABS is equal to driving with SRF, neither less of an assist than the other... Seriously, only a pussy/driver incapable of driving with no assist would fight to have ABS accepted as a "non assist".......

Many cars are sold with ABS but at the same time sold with no intentions of being competitively raced. Many of the more performance oriented cars sold with ABS will have options to turn off driver assist or enter a "Track Mode" of some sort to eliminate the assist. Others will have the ABS manually disabled if there is no manufacturer way of doing so...

Q:There is an argument that the brakes are poorly simulated and lock ups occur too easy. Would using ABS make it then more realistic?

A: No, because there is no problem with lock ups occurring too easily. That is a falsity carried over from GT5. In GT5 there were no STD brake options, all cars have Racing Brakes equipped and while many cars could still be driven still without ABS in GT5 being forced to run Racing Brakes at all times the use of ABS was understandable to an extent (there was some validity to the point) However this IS NOT the case in GT6. The people who used the braking issue in GT5 to mask their use of the ABS crutch are fighting for its legitimacy in GT6.

Its funny as there was a connected issue with GT5 as in GT5 the general consensus at GTP was that camber was broken in the same way they say camber is broken in GT6 but they now argue camber worked in GT5?!?!?!?!?!? Some even praise the physics of GT5 saying it was better done, that's only because in GT5 there were so many physics issues that exploit tuning really was the only tuning method that worked, no Body Roll means suspension tuning is a 100percent guessing game outside exploits. Now GT6 has incredibly better physics, exploit tuning no longer yields such fast cars. However using ABS allows for the only exploit tuning from GT5 to work in GT6 and that's tuning for exploiting the assist style ABS system. Take ABS away from them and they are lost...

So If GT was about driving around a city, or on the highway with traffic and road laws, sure use ABS, but since the game is about taking street cars to the track, drive them as they would be driven on a track, not how Grandma drives to the Mall, although Grandma has a heavy foot.

Word up Bro´!

Damn there is really a Person with real knowing about "what does the Suspension in my Car"! Hahaha
I read Sometimes in GTP, also in the Tuning Section. When i see a Setup without any Camber and Caster Values like -0.05/0.05, i know that´s wrong at all! I think, that some Guys really setting the Camber, but don´t show it to all.

My problem are. that PD don´t give general Informations about the Setting. For example, stiffer Springs results in lower ARB Values to work well. But what are Stiff Springs in GT6? Some Cars have up to 40kg Springs, other ends at 12kg. Are the 12kg Soft at all for every Car, or Stiff for only that Car? And wich ARB Settings are the right one, when i set the Springs to 60% from the maximum Springsrates, for example.

When i setup a Car, i try to have the same roll at Front and Rear, with look about the stock Balance from the Car. When the Car has 50:50 like the M3 ´07, then are the 50:50 when the Car stands on the Ground, without any weightshifting. But in a corner, when the Car roll over, then you have at the Front more Weight because it´s an FR Car with the Engine on the Front. Same effekt on a MR Car at the Rear. So the Springrates you can set, looks very weird for my opinion. Front ends up at 12,60 or so, Rear at much over 20. In real Cars u have everytime Stiffer Springs at the Front, by Aftermarket Tuning Suspensions. TEIN for example offers you 2 standard Springrates for his Street/Drift Suspension. For the Nissan Silvia S14 8/7 for the Street and 9/8 for Drift, and other Springstyles i have never seen befor, for every Car or Suspension Brand.

So what to do to set the M3 correctly for Sport Soft Tyres?

I also ever trying at setup a Car, that the Rear can follow the line from the Front. It´s makes no sense to set the Front for nice Cornering and without Understeer, when the Rear doesn´t follow the line 100%. A Car understeer to, by to soft Rear Springs, not only by to Stiff Front Springs. Special the Frontsprings have much to do, when the Weightshift from breaking and cornering are working on it, or at cornering the weight from rollover and the pressure from the ARB. Of course you can handle the ARB a little bit with the exbound from the Coilover, but higher exbound need stiffer Springs to keep up a working Suspension.

How does it all works on a FR Car with maximun 12kg Springs at the Front and over 20kg in the Rear, but more effekt from the weightshifting at the Front? And how looks like the diffrence to a Driftsetup? PD are the best in explain Things without saying anything about it lol.

Here are my settings for the Drift Seasonal BMW event for the M3. I know all are took the M5, but the M3 is the better Car for drift in my eyes. At it´s for Komfort hard tyres, because the Scoresystem are really fucked up. Normal i drift with Komfort Soft, because you need tyregrip for Drifting. Tyres with less Tyregrip results in less controlling. Maybe you can set a working Suspension for Tyres with less Tyregrip, but that brings no the better controlling with better tyres back in the Car. The Scoresystem are only look, how long you are drift, with a Driftangle from over 45° on the ideal raceline from the Corner. When you has over 85° the counter stops working and at 90° the points get lost. No fancy reverse Entrys for extrapoints stuff like this.

BMW M3 ´07 (setting in progress, that Setup was good for easy and chill driftet 9762Points :-).)

High: 80/74
Springs: 7,00/11,00
Inbound: 6/5
Exbound: 3/4
Antirollbar: 5/4
Camber: 2,6/0,6
Caster: 0,00/0,08

The minus rear caster let the car turns much faster and the Camber handle the Oversteering.

Edit: Sorry for my bad english, it´s rusty because i don´t spell it every day!

Wow wrote a page, but stupid app tossed the post saying I wasn't logged in (hate that glitch)

I wont write as much

In short PD simplified suspension for us. The numerical number is meaningless. Whats a 10k spring when other car has a 25k spring both at 50percent of the available spring rate for the cars, and both not to far off in weight? Its impossible to take the SR value alone and make sense of it unless its MacPherson Struts at or near 1:1 multilink and double wishbones will have a mysterious leverage factor. In The GT series PD accounts for leverage for us so we don't have to loose our minds over it. Equal amount of slider action results in SR balanced after the leverage factor. Basically 50perecet of each available adjustment range will have a balance despite different numerical values to the springs.

Whats important is where the value is inside the available adjustment range. If near the maximum setting that is stiff, if near the lowest setting that is soft.

The springs dampers and arb form the roll resistance over an axle, then the front roll resistance and rear roll resistance form a roll coupling. When a good roll coupling is achieved it is still possible to get more improvements adjusting the setting forming the roll resistance but keeping the same roll coupling front to rear.

This is where you can raise the SR stiffness while lowering the arb to keep roll coupling the same. Important to note springs put power down while arb will tend to lift or "make light" the inside tire. Most often playing with the roll resistance inside the roll coupling differential adjustments should be made as we tweak the inside outside tires grip balance.

Thanks for that.

Ok they keep it really simple lol. 50% SR works fine with 50% ARB. More wieght at the front need a higher ARB for same rolling like the Rear, so the SR must be softer. But how this works with the Camber. Higher Camber needs a softer ARB. When the Car at the inner Wheel goes up, the ARB keep Pressure to the outer wheel. Thats makes the Camber usefull at the Front. Without this pressure the Camber can´t work, right?

But which Camber is usefull on the Tyretypes. Everybody think, the better Tyres can handle more Camber. I think, a Racingtyre has much stiffer Tyrewalls like a Semislick or UHP Tyre. But you need a good working Tyrewall to use higher Camberrates, otherwise you don´t use the full griplevel from the Tyre. Works GT like this?

In reality and in the game primarily Camber is used to flatten out the contact patch secondly to manipulate the front to rear grip balance.

In reality but not in the game after the above camber is additionally used to take advantage sidewall flex to get a sort of pressure flattening contact to further improve grip, however in game no real sidewall flex to speak of so that element is not important here, but for some reason some people think its the primary function of camber and ignore the actual primary functions of camber tuning. Key to this is you tune to the primary use before the secondary and so on.

Its a bit of a balance game, as too stiff will reduce body roll minimizing the benefits of the setting, while too soft can lead to the tire still rolling over past the setting into positive dynamic camber.

The arb are very useful here they can effect the handling and balance / roll coupling without impacting other settings. ARB work only when cornering. You can use ARB to find the ideal roll coupling then manipulate the roll resistance with SR & ARB together (one goes up, the other goes down) to get the best arb / sr combination while not throwing off the roll coupling.

As for tires

Higher grip compounds will let the car hold more momentum around the track & corners increasing lateral G's. This will elevate the cornering roll camber requiring more static camber angle to counter.

"...but for some reason some people think its the primary function of camber and ignore the actual primary functions of camber tuning."

Hahahaha really? WTF is wrong with those Guys? Are this the same Guys, that say the camber is Broken?

Tireflex is the result of Camber tuning, or better says produced by the Camber. In the late ´90, has the Car and Tyre Manufactors testet, how Tyres with diffrent Sidewall heights help against the G-force and the inertia, because they elaminate the Tireflex. The results was, it´s senseless!

Ok the Mechanic Griplevel from the Tyres are static, the Camber balanced the Car. But the stock Camber is dynamic? It says when u lowering a Car with no Static Rearaxle, it produced more stock camber. like the BMW´s? I think there is a diffrent beetwen the Suspension Types. I see this at my Driftcars. Because i choose tyres with a gripllevel to drift, that can be handled from the Poweroutput, i feel easy changes in the Setting. On Cars with Stiff Rearaxle Suspension, like the ´11 Mustang, a higher rearcamber produced not faster turning at countersteering. It reduced only the mechanical grip. There is a real little Camber like 0,2 plus some prositiv Caster helpfull.

Ok sure, on drifting the priority is not the same like a Racingsetup, but it´s even helpfull becomes more Informations about the Gamephysics and there function. I really in Love with the new Physics from GT6, but it looks like PD to do all that nobody becomes Understanding about it. Maybe it works for Peoples with absolutely Zero knowing about Physik, Cars, Motorsport or any Technical Stuff, but i been very often clueless why it doesn´t work. The knowing about how minimalized and simple the technical implementation is, helps a lot by setting the car.

I think a HowTo with easy and short explaining about setup a Car is really Helpfull for much People. The Game hold it easy and simple, so the explaining must be the same. The HowTo´s on GTP with five fucking pages why it does this and that and blablablabla zzzZZZzzzzZZZzzz blablablabla, and for me absolutly no helpfull informations don´t give any help on setup a Car right. There are to much from the own driving Style, that basics on a wrong setting in the HowTo´s i think.

A fuck, i don´t really would ask about the LSD. I know how it works in real Life, with preload levels in Newtonmeter and that a LSD has only two functions on acceleration and breaking, open and close and the value regulated how much diffrence are needed beetwen the Tyres to open or close the Diff. But the available adjustment range from the LSD in GT, makes no fucking Sense for me. For some time i think, when u set 44 acceleration means 75% in real life, but this is wrong. In game are Cars they have values from 80 on the Stock LSD, but you can´t have more then 100%.

And really, sorry about my English. It must be stressful to read my postings lol!

Because the Timeout Bug at Quick Reply, i copy the Text befor i push the button. When it fucked up by the Timeout, i loed the page new and paste it easy.

Edit: I forgot something to ask. The rolling from the Car are only affected from the ARB ans SR setting? The Coilover settings has no effect on it? Also a higher Outbound setting minimized not the Liftoff on the inner Side from the Car while Cornering? I try everytime to let the Car on the Outside runs smooth with enough range in the Suspension that be can work fine, but don´t let the Car to much liftoff on the innerside, regulated with the Outbound Setting from the Coilover. So i try to handle the pressure that the ARB produce on the Outside from the car. More lift Inside gives more pressure Outside. Reduce the Liftoff with the Outbound, you can set a higher ARB without higher pressure an the Outside. Less pressure on the Outside, let you choose a lower SR and the Suspension still working while Cornering. Plus the Car runs unagitated on straights or long Curves.

Yes, exactly those are the guys who say its broken lmfao, it figures...

Camber setting is static but used to manipulate the dynamic angle.

In the real world raising and lowering the car will effect the camber angle. There is whats called "camber gain" as the wheel moves up (lowering the car) it gains negative camber angle and when the wheel goes down (raise the car) it gains positive camber. This all depends on the geometry of the suspension and in reality it varies from car to car, and some have no camber gain at all due to solid axle rear ends etc.

In Gran Turismo its a fixed amount. 4 degrees total 2positive as body goes up (ext) and 2 negative as body goes down (comp)

The camber gain is only dynamic in the GT series for a simple reason. The static camber angle if set to 0.0 when you raise and lower the car will always keep the camber at that setting, so if you raise or lower the car the 0.0 setting keeps camber at 0.0 static. However the dynamic camber gain will be present driving around the track..

Dampers Springs And ARB all effect cornering

ARB have zero straight line impact to performance all of its effects will only be present during lateral loads.

Dampers control the speed of weight transfer, under dive and squat, but also effect transitions through the corer as when the outside is compressed and the inside lifting the out side damp is comp the inside ext. The dampers settings will effect how fast the side to side weight transfer levels out, so you can further tune cornering focussing on each phase of the corner. Important to note damper tuning can have opposite effects in different phases of the corner ie stuff that creates oversteer effect in one phase can cause understeer in a different phaze